tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post6093182843552916639..comments2024-03-23T14:04:57.635-05:00Comments on Father Hollywood: Sermon: Monday of Trinity 1, Consecration of Latif Gaba as DeaconRev. Larry Beanehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-34096022869856647542009-06-26T18:36:49.212-05:002009-06-26T18:36:49.212-05:00To be sure, John. Mired is just the word. Part o...To be sure, John. Mired is just the word. Part of why I left was confusion over what is church, what is call, what is OHM, the works. The upside is, my prior experiences in WELS and the RCC put our problems in LCMS in a larger perspective.Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-17112694438585096802009-06-25T10:20:05.244-05:002009-06-25T10:20:05.244-05:00Congratulations to Br. Latif.
As regards "P...Congratulations to Br. Latif. <br /><br />As regards "Past Elders'" comment, when I was mired in the WELS there was a conference sponsored by the synod for church council members/elders with the tag that their position "was one of the oldest in Christianity" this proved by alleged supporting texts (teh presbyteros ones) from St. Paul. So that confusion exists there if not at P.E.'s parish. But it doesn't matter anyway in that all those "offices" (sic) in the WELS are in the OHM.<br /><br />Get a haircut, you hippie.<br /><br />Fondly,<br />Fr. John W. BergJohn Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11914057522115207733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-66293752203733403462009-06-24T18:21:30.617-05:002009-06-24T18:21:30.617-05:00Yes. In the parish (WELS) where I was an elder, i...Yes. In the parish (WELS) where I was an elder, it was made clear that this role is not what the NT calls elder. But I've had people (EO, actually) from outside Lutheranism ask me on blogs if I am a priest or bishop. OTOH, deacons in that parish tended to the grounds, repairs etc.<br /><br />In my experience, an elder may assist in the distribution of Communion or read a sermon written by the pastor in his absence, but to participate in consecration, ordination, or preaching -- no way, not called to do that.<br /><br />Then again, in my first LCMS parish, they had a Ministry Action Team, fka elders. How's that for a little 1960s ablaze in the 21st century.Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-67949448855679062202009-06-24T15:06:42.920-05:002009-06-24T15:06:42.920-05:00Congratulations to Mr. Gaba!Congratulations to Mr. Gaba!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-15888432278063896472009-06-24T14:00:47.885-05:002009-06-24T14:00:47.885-05:00Dear PE:
The funny thing (as you well know) is th...Dear PE:<br /><br />The funny thing (as you well know) is that in Scripture, elder (presbuteros) is a pastor/priest/presbyter. Our Lutheran forbears, when they adopted English, adopted the Reformed practice of using the term "elder" for non-pastoral parish administrators (which are ordained in the Presbyterian churches).<br /><br />Our "elders" are really more like deacons - though we have a functional view of the office of congregational "elder." In my parish, for example, elders are installed for two year terms. They are not ordained for service, nor is there any ontological view of their service to me and to the parish.<br /><br />I do think we would do well to have a revived diaconate, men who are assisting the pastor, but unlike the "licensed deacons" in the LCMS, are not playing pastor. We would also do well to reserve the biblical term "elder" for the pastors. As a result of this confusion, some churches actually have "elders" (elected laymen who help pastors) assisting in the laying on of hands at ordinations, and in some rare cases, officiating at "communion" in people's homes. I filled in at one church in which the elders vest in albs with a stole worn diagonally.<br /><br />Latif's role at St. Stephen's is not to preach and administer sacraments (he was not ordained a presbyter), but rather to assist Pastor May at the altar and in acts of mercy and service to the parish. His role is more like that of a lay elder than an ordained pastor - which is historically what deacons have done.<br /><br />Latif is in no way rostered by the synod - which I think is actually a blessing and frees him up to serve his pastor and parish without external entanglements.<br /><br />To avoid confusion, we specifically steered clear of the word "ordination" even though that is the traditional term for placing a man into diaconal ministry. Maybe we can restore the ordained diaconate in the LCMS - although we don't even have consensus as to what the roles of lay people and presbyters are at this point.<br /><br />In any case, Br. Latif will be a great blessing to pastor and parish in his ministry as a deacon. I wish I had a deacon to help me here.Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-58918976648166769922009-06-24T13:46:39.224-05:002009-06-24T13:46:39.224-05:00Ad multos annos!
Related comments -- anyone see P...Ad multos annos!<br /><br />Related comments -- anyone see PTM's post on his blog about this picture? Also, seems like in some LCMS congregations "deacon" is used instead of "elder" -- or am I wrong, are they actually ordaining these guys?Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-57370445870124234692009-06-23T17:57:18.455-05:002009-06-23T17:57:18.455-05:00Amen, indeed!Amen, indeed!William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-4478552139782753312009-06-23T13:35:51.956-05:002009-06-23T13:35:51.956-05:00Wish we had been there!Wish we had been there!Joe Greenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943906107649266856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22781533.post-51647183548789906182009-06-23T13:18:34.162-05:002009-06-23T13:18:34.162-05:00Amen!Amen!Mike Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06508323155548373700noreply@blogger.com